What is the best main series Pokemon game of all time?
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@Flametix Yeah you were kinda harsh on the cult classic Italian food known as pizza. @TheJeffers was right.
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@Dedenne90524 Ok, if you think it’s that great, what’s your reason? Hmm? I am waiting. We gave you countless pieces of evidence to show pineapple is bad on pizza, what is your argument?
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I can understand TheJeffers point of view as someone who grew up with Gen 1, but objectively gen 1 is like a caveman pizza most kids don't even eat nowadays and is just notable for being the first attempt at it. It has bugs in it, was both delayed and rushed, and is completely unbalanced with you being unable to thaw out a frozen pizza.
I don't see how I was harsh on the food pizza itself though CherryFizz. I compared the timeless pepperoni pizza to the best Pokemon games of all time; I think that's pretty high praise. Even TheJeffers admitted Gen 1 was half baked in areas.
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Flametix, @Flametix I don’t think that gen 1 is good, it was the first pizza. But it seemed like you were criticizing pizza quite a lot. I don’t really see that anymore, but yes it was kind of half baked in both pizza and the Pokemon games. Gen 1 of Pokemon should have been delayed to the game boy color so it could look better. (In my opinion)
Gen 1 of pizza was just dough and tomato sauce, but why I felt you criticized it was that Gen 1 of pizza is what started all Pizza. Even Pineapple pizza (still bad).
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@CherryFizz507 I am vegetarian, and i have tried pineapple as a substitute for meat in a burger, but without some kind of patty it just felt like a salad roll. I love pineapple but perhaps it is time to stop putting it on savoury dishes. Although i still think that pineapple on pizza isn't horrible, i don't think that's a reason to put it in my burger tho.
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I disagree, don't think gen 1 should have been delayed any longer or it would have never happened. They were being developed since 1990 and ran into very troubled development, running out of money so they had to work on filler games like Yoshi and Pulseman, and employees still quit, and almost losing all their progress due to computer crashes. It was a late release on a 7 year old console and arguably Pokemon getting lucky and reviving the game boy helped the Game Boy Color be a viable option in the first place.
Sometimes the more important part is to get a finished product out than perfect it and never release, though arguably some people feel like this is the problem with modern pizza nowadays where they try to add more toppings after you already paid and got served a cold pizza.
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@Flametix I accept that gen 1 was my first Pokémon game, and everyone's first Pokémon game colours their perception of the series and what they expect from a Pokémon game. Everyone enters the series at a different point.
I accept that nostalgia will be a part of my recollection and perception of the games. And I played them when I was a child. My thought processes and critical analysis skills were not fully developed at that stage. That might still be true for younger members of this forum. (That is not an insult or intended to discredit you. Just an observation about the development of the human mind and consciousness throughout life. You are not the same person you were when you were five, at fifteen, at 25, at 50, etc.)
But I have played the games multiple times throughout my life, and compared them to the Pokémon games of the time. I did not just play through them when I was 10, declare them the "BESTEST GAEMZ EVAR!!!!" and retain that belief into my 30s without retrospection or reevaluation.
The games are deeply flawed. They were developed by a group of non-programmers who originally founded their company to publish a gaming magazine. The project was fraught with difficulties (as most indie projects are, and why the majority fail and never see a finished product) but somehow stumbled their way to release one of the best selling games of all time.
But being flawed does not preclude a game, nor any artistic work, nor any product of any kind, from being "good". From having its own merits or qualities, and being enjoyable, interesting or inspiring despite its imperfections. Indeed, in a way they can be beloved for them, like the audio "pops" on an LP.
Most of my favourite games of all time have flaws and imperfections. And so many of the technically nigh-perfect, pretty, well designed games fall by the wayside, modest successes or even failures, that nevertheless failed to inspire people or capture their imaginations.
Doing something new, interesting and bold rarely does everything right on the first attempt. Or even the first dozen attempts. But people see the potential. And they clamour for more. To iron out the creases, give them more of what they love, trim the fat that hampers the true vision and deliver on what everyone can see lurking beneath the surface: the beautiful sculpture hidden below the blank marble.
All the elements that make Pokémon, Pokémon, were there in Red and Green. Haphazard, underdeveloped and poorly implemented. But they were there.
The thrill of choosing your first starter. The core decision that starts to define your adventure and your future champion team.
The encounters with wild Pokémon and the desperate struggle to capture them without knocking them out.
The freedom to name and personalise your team. Each Pokémon has its own stats and strengths that differentiates it from the other members of its species.
You can name it yourself. Name it after your friends. Name it after your loved ones. Name it after your own real world pet. Give it a punny name that will make your friends laugh.
Call your Pidgey "Butt" and have it use gust.
Hilarious and original.
You fight the gym leaders. Each one a landmark on your journey. Each requiring different tactics and types (or just keep using your starter, you're 10, whatever). And each hard won victory a step closer to becoming a champion, opening up the next stage of your journey through the world.
You have the Pokédex. A challenge to "catch 'em all". It is Oak's first request at the very start of the game. (Well, there was the parcel thing, but... first major request.) It was the marketing tag line for the franchise in the west.
Wouldn't it be absurd to remove such a core foundational element from the series?
You have the first appearance of a villainous team in the game. Team Rocket. For better or worse, these teams have always been a part of Pokémon's narrative, and at this point have become the main driving force behind most plots.
The reveal of the eighth gym leader's identity, though telegraphed to a degree, especially in shadowy portraits, was iconic. And beating him again one final time brings an additional layer of satisfaction to the conclusion of the gym storyline.
Beating the Elite Four is similarly another enduring part of Pokémon. And the existence of a fifth member, the champion, is no longer a surprise but an open fact. You often meet the champion in the early game as a part of the story.
And technically in Red and Green, you do too.
You have been ambushed and mocked by your childhood rival throughout the game. You thought you had beaten him last time and you alone had advanced to face the Elite Four. And you won.
But after struggling through that gauntlet, you are told there is yet another challenge. And it is revealed to be your smug rival.
Beating him, in spite of his arrogant boasts and the brutal battles with the Elite Four weakening your Pokémon, is a satisfying conclusion to the journey. Registering your team in the Hall of Fame is such a well earned moment of victory.
But of course, there is the major element introduced by Red and Green that really took the world by storm: trading and battling.
On a handheld console this was revolutionary. Not only could you choose from 150(+1) Pokémon and personalise your team, their names and movesets for battles against your friends, or even competitors in tournaments, but they would retain these traits when traded away. You could send your Pokémon out into the world, beyond your game, and have them touch other people's lives; being a gift from a new friend, the crucial Pokémon they needed to complete their Pokédex or a powerful member of their team. And it came from you and your game.
Pokémon Red and Green, or Red and Blue internationally, are not perfect games. Far from it. And they are dated. They look their age. But I would still recommend them as the definitive Kanto experience.
Later games fixed the bugs, refined the mechanics and added new, beloved features. Many argue that Fire Red and Leaf Green are the superior experiences, and they certainly do a lot to modernise (for the time) and clean up a somewhat haphazard first outing.
But they change it. Types are rebalanced and moves are present that were not there before. They are not the games that laid the groundwork of the franchise. They are not the games that arose out of a small, scrappy company.
They are a cynical product of a now corporate Gamefreak that wanted to quickly cash in with a quick remake of games they had released only a few years before, the second their breakout success started to flounder.
I will always recommend that new players to the series consider starting with Red and Green/Blue. That people playing Kanto for the first time try those versions first.
Yes, they may be flawed, buggy and dated. I do not deny any of those issues. But despite all of that, they were the games that built the series and the entire franchise. They are an insight into an age, a mindset and and industry long past.
And despite all the aforementioned problems, besides the 90s GB graphics that everyone readily dismisses them for, Gamefreak keeps replicating all of their gameplay conventions and story beats out of fear of killing what made the series great and beloved in the first place. Do they even still understand it, or do they replicate as dogma a product they no longer understand and could no longer make for themselves?
Play FRLG instead if you really can't stand it. Play whichever game you want if you really don't care about Kanto and want to jump in with 3D graphics or the latest game or whatever. I am not here to force you to eat your vegetables. I am just here to politely suggest that you might appreciate your meals more if you understood the elements that made them great in the first place, and the theory behind the ingredients that made the great pizza you enjoy today.
I BROUGHT IT ALL BACK TO PIZZA, BABY!!!!
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is It Like pizza in a since where you just started to put it in the oven in kanto then it keeps heating up until unova where it gets taken out and then perfection at time then you let it cool where at kalos it still taste good with a few extra topping that make sense but by the time you get to paldea you have a cold pizza with ghost peppers sprinkles salt sugar lemon cake batter and eggs and it’s not really presentable and barely able to be eaten
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This is all a good argument, but why are we talking about pizza and Pokemon?
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