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I really hope the next game isn't open world

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UnovanZorua
UnovanZorua Member Posts: 2,527 ✭✭✭✭✭
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edited July 10 in Pokémon Square #1

SV just feel so empty. The towns feel like filler. The non-town areas feel like filler. Literally everything except Mesagoza and Area Zero (and the DLCs) feels like filler. Even in Mesagoza, which is the only town I feel like they tried to put some effort into, there's only one singular building you can enter if you don't count the school. There isn't even something fun to do outside of the main story like Pokémon Amie or Pokémon Camp or Ultra Wormholes and Mantine Surfing in the previous games, after you finish the story all you can do is just try to complete the Pokédex, try to build a competitive team, wait until an event happens, or shiny hunt. And the game almost feels like you can't replay it because of how long it takes to just get to the second town, SM may have also been long at the beginning but at least there's more than one character there while the story happens and it actually feels like something is happening. SV has almost nothing other than its story and subjectively good characters.

I remember disliking SwSh a little after they came out, but honestly now I feel like I was taking the ability to go into random people's homes without permission and having fun little minigames I can replay and not feeling a sense of dread, but excitement, whenever I try to start a new save file for granted.

I know Z-A is going to be open world and gen 10 is almost guaranteed to be open world because most people see open world and think it means good and that means money, but I can hope that gen 10 actually turns out to be good (if I hope hard enough, maybe we'll be able to go into random people's homes and chat with them in Z-A. Maybe. Maybe it'll at least turn out to not be rushed like SV were? I just need to hope).

I'm not saying I hate SV, by the way. I've played them for over 300 hours. It's just that most of those hours were spent doing events and in DLC exclusive postgame and I wish there was something other than that in the game.

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  • TheJeffers
    TheJeffers Member Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Much like 3D, the average gamer's perception of open worlds is that it is inherently better than a more closed, linear design. It gives you more freedom, which is generally true, at least in terms of the amount of the game world you can exploreon a whim. But as with any narrative or design choice, its quality depends on how it is implemented and utilised by the game.

    SV's open world is one key source of many of its issues, but it didn't have to be that way, and it doesn't have to be that way with future generations.

    The biggest problem was that they created a linear story (or set of stories) with a clear intended progression route in terms of levels and difficulty, but slapped it into an open world without accounting for the non-linear approach.

    So you can technically go all the way to they highest level areas and gyms from the start if you can glitch your way into the area, but the game does nothing to account for it. It doesn't scale the levels, species, moves or number of Pokémon you face at gyms. This means that even though you can technically go and challenge the higher level gyms first, there is little point.

    Either the challenge will be too hard and you will be forced to go back and face the lower level gyms first (in which case, why give me the freedom to do it?) or you will beat them, but then have to go back and beat the lower level gyms anyway (which similarly do not scale to your higher level) and the experience becomes boring and tedious.

    We cannot simply let players beat the hardest gym and let them go challenge the Elite Four, because the first (linear) game required all 8 badges. And if Red and Blue did it, you better believe every other Pokémon game will do the same thing in some form, regardless of whether or not it makes sense within that game's world and systems.

    You are punished for failing, but you are also punished with tedium for success.

    Another key issue is that Game Freak have much less control over how and when you encounter side activities and points of interest in the game world, unless they lock you in to going there to progress the story. This can lead to the game world feeling dead and empty, because players may go through large stretches of the game without encountering anything of note, simply due to the size of the world and the unfortunate serendipity that led them to take a path that avoided all the interesting things about the world.

    This assumes that Game Freak designed an open world full of intrigue, of course. Which they didn't.

    With linear design and map progression, not only can you prevent players from entering empty, boring areas (which also means you do not have to waste resources designing them) you also have much more control over the pacing. You can choose how and when the player encounters them, ensuring that there is a consistent flow of interesting events and side encounters to keep things engaging between major story beats, and make the world feel alive.

    Game Freak's consistent problem is that they rigidly adhere to the conventions of a 2D linear RPG on the Game Boy from the ninties when designing their 3D open world RPG on a home console in the 2020s. They desperately need to reassess their designs and practices when adapting Pokémon to an entirely different type of game design.

    But they don't. They slap their cast of 8 type-themed gym leaders with linearly increasing levels from their 90s-era design onto an open world where the player might try to glitch backwards over mountains to beat Grusha first in a desperate attempt to liven up their playthrough.

    They haven't designed a rich open world. They have tried to stretch Kanto over a massive 3D map (that they also failed to optimise and renders a massive ocean at all times for no reason).

    As I said, there is no reason that a 3D open world cannot work just as well as a 2D linear world. They simply have to design with these design choices and systems in mind. And if they refuse to do that, I would prefer that they went back to 2D linear worlds again.

    But the normies have seen a 3D open world Pokémon game now, however badly it was implemented. More 3D = more gooderer. More open = more gooderer.

    We can't unring that bell. We just have to drag Game Freak kicking and screaming into actually designing appropriately the game they chose to force upon themselves.

  • clasingla
    clasingla Member Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    honestly I 100% agree been going back and playing the post game of ultra moon and their is lowkey a surprising amount of postgame content even after rainbow rocket

  • Candy0_o
    Candy0_o Member Posts: 554 ✭✭✭
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    I agree but I don't want too

  • MonstaDash
    MonstaDash Member Posts: 572 ✭✭✭
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    As long as the open world trend lives on then it will be open world.

  • Lonestar85
    Lonestar85 Member Posts: 175 ✭✭✭
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    Personally I would prefer they go back to their roots or specifically 2D. Ever since they went 3D with Gen 6, it’s gotten progressively worse each Generation in terms of difficulty, hand holding and other quirks. I mean I get it that the target audience is little kids but little kids have a brain and can figure things out. It’s one thing that made games in the 80’s and 90’s so good is that they didn’t hold your hand. You learned by trial and error and with the 2D look meant they couldn’t hold your attention with open world eye candy but actually had to put in effort in terms of story(including dialogue), characters and Towns(where you could explore and enter buildings and what not). The OST was also paramount since that’s what is ingrained in your mind as you play. I mean if we did a poll on OST, vast majority of the top 10 would come from Gens 1-5 or before the 3D switch. That’s not to say Gens 6-9 don’t have solid OST but let’s be real, Gens 1-5 win in the OST department.

    Then if they wanted to do an open world game, you do so like WoW and basically create an open world encompassing all regions: Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, Sinnoh, Unova, Kalos, Alola, Galar and most recently Paldea. Some regions will be near one another while others will necessitate “travel” like Ash did in the Anime. When traveling you take only one Pokémon with you and the rest of your team has to be locally caught. So you, as a player, get to pick your own one true partner Pokémon to challenge each and every region, PvP other players, etc. There’s lots they could do with it.

  • Voltareon2012
    Voltareon2012 Member Posts: 332 ✭✭✭
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    I don't like the open world either. It's so… empty. I feel so lonely! The picnics are boring, so it's not like I feel like my Pokémon are with me. I can't really talk to everyone. The fact that you choose where to go… when I saw it on the box, I thought it would be fun. When I played it… no. It was weird. I only met Neamona at I think two gyms. Clide would just show up out of nowhere, Arven would always somehow be near the titan with no explanation of how he got there… yeah. An order is better. And the Pokémon Centers… why are they in the middle of nowhere half the time? Before, Pokémon Centers felt like little hubs for trainers to get healed, get supplies, talk with other Trainers, trade… I would always use the Café space in UltraMoon, just to hear the guy talk. The only things I liked about S/V were Titan Tatsugiri (he's just funny), and a handful of characters. Other than that, I felt pretty bored playing the game, and pretty rarely return to it now. I considered replaying it, but it just boring after the first time, even if I make little challenges for myself like "You can't use Pokémon Centers, only items you find." Just the whole game feels lonely, I preferred it when I would be heading to my next trial and find Lillie to congratulate me, or when I went to the next town and Hop would dash up for a battle, or when I'd be heading through a route and find Trevor and Tierno for some Pokédex comparisons and a battle.