What Toedscruel ex should stop (and what it should not)
Hello all ! i am still mildly confused about Toedscruel ex's (and by extension, Espeon VMAX's) Ability; to recap, both say "Prevent all effects of attacks used by your opponent’s Pokémon done to all of your Pokémon that have Energy attached. (Existing effects are not removed. Damage is not an effect.)" i saw some scenarios on TVG Live as below and you all can tell me if i am right or wrong:
1) The Ability stops Lycanroc ex's Scary Fangs (During your opponent’s next turn, if this Pokémon is damaged by an attack (even if it is Knocked Out), put 10 damage counters on the Attacking Pokémon.) By extension, it will also stop the 151 Mewtwo's Reflective Barrier and the older Aggron's Counter Press (both state "During your opponent’s next turn, if this Pokémon is damaged by an attack (even if this Pokémon is Knocked Out), put damage counters on the Attacking Pokémon equal to the damage done to this Pokémon.") i think this is correct ("Prevent all effects of attacks"), am i right ?
2) The Ability stops all Technical Machines from working. i think this is also correct; they are all still effects of attacks, am i right ?
3) This is the most mind-boggling one i saw so far: The Ability stops the Trainer Agatha (Move up to 3 damage counters from your Active Pokémon to your opponent's Active Pokémon.) from working. What i saw was, 3 damage counters was removed from my Active Pokémon, but 3 damage counters was not placed on my opponent's Active Pokémon (yes, he/she got an active Espeon VMAX). i think this is wrong because this is the effect of a Trainer card, not an attack; am i right ? Is this a bug or a rule change i don't know about ?
Comments
-
@TechHog Toedscruel would also block TM Evolution, right?
1 -
No. There's never a situation where TM Evolution would interact with Protective Mycelium. The Ability protects *your* Pokémon from effects of the *opponent's* attacks. Evolution affects the attacking player's Pokémon, meaning there's no interaction. If it stopped effects on all Pokémon in play it would stop Evolution, but that's not the case.
2 -
Ah, I see. That makes sense. Thanks.
0 -
Ok, here is a new one, and my friend and i were arguing about this the whole night: let say i have a Mimikyu (Ability: Safeguard - Prevent all damage done to this Pokémon by attacks from your opponent’s Pokémon ex and Pokémon V.) with attached Energy in the Active, Toedscruel ex on my Bench, with no Path to the Peak in play. The opposing player has a Great Tusk ex in the Active (Great Bash - This attack’s damage isn’t affected by any effects on your opponent’s Active Pokémon.) This is where this get tricky. My friend argued that "This attack’s damage isn’t affected by any effects on your opponent’s Active Pokémon" should be considered an effect of an attack, and therefore Toedscruel ex should stop this effect. If so, Mimikyu should not be Knocked Out. I still think Mimikyu would be Knocked Out. Who is right ? By the way, i do think his argument has merit, i just not sure it works that way.
0 -
"shred" moves (ie any move that says its damage isn't affected by any effects on the defending pokemon) should still affect mimikyu, yes.
effects of attacks refers to the attack doing something to a card on the board other than direct damage - special conditions, damage counters, buffs/debuffs in this case. the attack saying its damage isn't affected by any effects on the defending pokemon is actually a type of rule text and trumps mimikyu's ability because mimikyu's usual v/ex immunity is a self buff (ie an effect). it would also never interact with toedscruel's ability because aside from being able to brute force any effects on a pokemon, the attack doesn't actually do any effect to the pokemon.
1 -
i have this rather interesting discussion with this Agent_Zara from supportteam@pokemon.com and become more confused as to what Toedscruel ex can or can't do:
Me: By the rules, Toedscruel ex's Ability should stop Technical Machine: Devolution's effect if the Pokemon being attacked has a Energy attached. As of today, 22 APR 2024, Toedscruel ex's Ability does not stop Technical Machine: Devolution's effect. Why ? Attached is the battle log for that game, please scroll to Turn # 13 - Baalio's Turn - why does Technical Machine: Devolution's effect affect Glimmora ex if there is a Toedscruel ex on the Bench and Glimmora ex had a Basic Fighting Energy attached ? Is there a rule change or is this a bug ?
The turn # 13 in question:
Turn # 13 - Baalio's Turn
Baalio drew a card.
Baalio's Radiant Alakazam used Painful Spoons.- Baalio moved 2 damage counters from YouYongWuMou's Mimikyu to YouYongWuMou's Glimmora ex.
Baalio played Switch. - Baalio's Bibarel was switched with Baalio's Bidoof to become the Active Pokémon.
Baalio's Bibarel is now in the Active Spot.
Baalio attached Technical Machine: Devolution to Bibarel in the Active Spot.
Baalio's Bibarel used Devolution. - Baalio devolved YouYongWuMou's Gengar to Gastly on the Bench.
- YouYongWuMou moved YouYongWuMou's Gengar to their hand.
- Baalio devolved YouYongWuMou's Toedscruel ex to Toedscool on the Bench.
- YouYongWuMou moved YouYongWuMou's Toedscruel ex to their hand.
- Baalio devolved YouYongWuMou's Liepard to Purrloin on the Bench.
- YouYongWuMou moved YouYongWuMou's Liepard to their hand.
- Baalio devolved YouYongWuMou's Glimmora ex to Glimmet in the Active Spot.
- YouYongWuMou moved YouYongWuMou's Glimmora ex to their hand.
- 2 cards were discarded from YouYongWuMou's Glimmora ex.
• Glimmet, Basic Fighting Energy
YouYongWuMou's Radiant Hisuian Sneasler is now in the Active Spot.
Baalio took a Prize card.
A card was added to Baalio's hand.
Technical Machine: Devolution was activated. - Technical Machine: Devolution was discarded from Baalio's Bibarel.
(Before you ask, yes, there is a Toedscruel ex on Glimmora ex's side of the Bench)
Agent_Zara: Protective Mycelium protects only your Pokémon from the effects of your opponent's attacks. However, Technical Machine: Devolution is not considered an attack.
Me: i am sorry, but i have to refute your claim that Technical Machine: Devolution is not an attack. Please read the card carefully: The Pokémon this card is attached to can use the attack on this card. (You still need the necessary Energy to use this attack.) If this card is attached to 1 of your Pokémon, discard it at the end of your turn. (Again, please note the word "attack") Devolution: Devolve each of your opponent’s evolved Pokémon by putting the highest Stage Evolution card on it into your opponent’s hand.
By the rules, any attack that does not do direct damage is considered to do effects of attacks. Combined together, this means Toedscruel ex should stop the effect of "Devolve each of your opponent’s evolved Pokémon by putting the highest Stage Evolution card on it into your opponent’s hand."
All this means there is a bug or many bugs with the game program itself, because it does not implement the game rules correctly. Shouldn't you try to find out what is wrong with the program ?Agent_Zara: We consider this card to be working as intended, and are unable to provide further comments on this interaction. We'd recommend reaching out to other trainers for further discussion.
To other trainers for further discussion: Ok, what is going on ? ! Am i not following the rules properly or is there a rule change i don't know about ? 😅
0 - Baalio moved 2 damage counters from YouYongWuMou's Mimikyu to YouYongWuMou's Glimmora ex.
-
Support is clueless. It's a bug. Hope you have them one star. @YouYongWuMou
3 -
From the official rulebook:
For most attacks, the order in which you do things doesn’t really matter. However, for a complicated attack, here are the full steps:
A) Look at your Pokémon and decide which attack to use. Make sure you have the correct Energy attached.
Then, announce you are using that attack.
B) Apply any effects that might alter or cancel the attack. For example, if an attack that was used against your Pokémon
last turn says, “If the Defending Pokémon tries to attack during your opponent’s next turn, your opponent flips a coin.
If tails, that attack doesn’t happen.” (But remember—if an Active Pokémon moves to the Bench, all effects of attacks
go away. So if your Active Pokémon has changed since your opponent used the attack in this example, you don’t have
to flip a coin.)My friend wanted me to consider the idea that since Devolution hit every Pokemon simultaneously, they devolved Toedscruel ex to Toedscool BEFORE Toedscruel ex can offer its protection. i still think Toedscruel ex should protect everyone 1st before it get devolved (Apply any effects that might alter or cancel the attack). Argh, i am so confused 😵 so who is right ? My friend or me ?
1
