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Broken Game Design (not bugs!) will lose the TCG Live a lot of players

Every popular game has at least one core feature that makes it interesting. In the case of the pokemon tcg this is the possibility to build a virtually endless number of different exciting decks and playing them against this very variety of different decks, making the game exciting all over again as soon as you are able to test your new creation.

Unfortunately, the TCG Live prevents players, who do not invest a lot of money into code cards, from doing exactly this. Due to the extremely scarce rewards, building a new deck might take months of daily play, and there is no chance of reducing this time with increased play. This will (and certaily already has) lead many players to leave the game, as after a short while there is literally nothing more to do than grinding the same deck over and over again, waiting hopelessly for a time where new rewards are finally available to make the next tiny step towards building a new deck. I know that the chance that anyone, who actually has influence on the game design, will actually read this, but I still wanted to give my thoughts. As we all know, the hope that something improves dies last.

A quick disclaimer before I go into more detail: I know that the pokemon company wants to make money, and therefore the buying of packs is (and should be to some extend) incentivised by the game. But: Literally every free-to-play game maker knows that the basis of a good free-to-play game is a huge number of active players who don't pay, but who in turn improve the experience of those who do pay (for example by allowing for quick match pairing times due to the higher number of players, or by making the paying players feel superior because they can afford more decks or higher rarity cards). Additionally, there is no chance that someone just wakes up one day and decides to buy a bunch of pokemon cards. It is a process that starts with a good (!) free-to-play experience that, after a while, shifts into a desire to either get more out of the game by buying codes, or to buy the actual cards and play in real life. Playing a frustrating and unrewarding game is definitely not somthing that will cause this to happen.

The reason why the current game design is completely deterrent for non-paying players is the broken reward system. The game offers four different rewards:

  1. Coins: Can only be used for avatar items. For me (and most likely for many or even most other players) these coins are completely useless after the character has been designed once. Players play the game to build decks and play the actual game, not to design their character! In this light, it feels kind of insulting that the game gives you these useless coins as one of the only two daily rewards, while you wait for something actually useful that allows you to actually build a deck.
  2. Crstals: Are kind of useful, especially to buy the premium battle pass. But if you want to buy some of the actually helpful store items, you need to complete the daily quest for 25 days (!!!) to get a few cards and a few packs, or 4 days for only a single pack that most likely does not contain what you need! In summary, these crystals are a drop in the ocean with regards to building a new deck, making them ultimately pretty useless.
  3. Packs: Do most of the time not contain the cards that you actually want. The crafting system is kind of useful, but you need to open a lot of packs before you can make any reasonable progress in terms of purchasing the cards you actually want, and the number of packs needed for this substantially exceeds the number of packs obtainable at the battle pass.
  4. Credits: Ultimately the only really useful reward. Unfortunately it is at the same time the reward that is the hardest to get. No daily quest yields credits, the ladder yields (in most cases, explaination will follow later) about 1600 credits (which equates to about 4 rare cards per month, or less than two hyper rares) and the battle pass yields, after an initial boost of 2750 credits at level 0, only 1765 credits for the whole next few months! Without buying a lot of packs, crafting is unlikely to increase this amount significantly.

So lets compare this to the amount of credits that is actually required to build a new deck: I just now built a regi deck that required 13 rare basic pokemon (equates to more than 5300 credits) and a few trainer cards (about 200 credits, but only because I purchased many already for previous decks) as well as energy cards (also 200 credits). This deck alone already consumed over 90% of the credits that are obtainalbe by the ladder in a whole month and by the battle pass in multiple months! After exchanging all of the cards, I now know that I will not be able to build another deck for literal months! And also keep in mind that the regi deck is by far not one of the most expensive ones. I would also like to build arceus regidrago-vstar, which commonly requires 8 pokemon v and 6 pokemon vstar or vmax, meaning that almost 14000 credits are required. This is enough to swallow more than two battle passes and three ranked ladders! Should it really take more than three months to build a single deck?

Lets quickly discuss the ladder to see how I arrive at the numbers for the rewards. As soon as the ladder starts from scratch, you get a rather large number of rewards for completing the first tiers, because you already start off at a higher rank (for me it was around 600 or so, and I assume it is the same for everyone). The next reward is obtainalbe at 1320, which seems barely reachable. This feeling is actually based on math as well: The ranking system is symmetric, meaning that all points a player wins are points that another player loses. This means that it is mathematically impossible for more than a tiny fraction of players to advance past the level at which this symmetric system starts (I think also at 600). This can only be mitigated by introducing "free" points into the system, which is done only at the 600-point-rank, as it is impossible to drop below this threshold (meaning one player gains points while to other does not lose any). This helps a tiny bit, but overall it does not change the general situation much: Climbing up the ladder is almost impossible as long as you do not play one of the three top decks, and even then it is really hard because many other players do the same and there is mathematically no way that a large percentage will advance. This means that for many players the ladder rewards are capped at 1600 credits, which will be obtained directly after the ladder starts, followed by a long and boring downtime.

All of this can lead to the follwing situation: The ladder started a few days ago, and you can't make any real progress, so there is nothing to do there. The battle pass is extremely easy to complete in way less then its actual duration, so it is likely that there is also nothing to do for the next few weeks. This means that the total rewards that are obtainable from now on are those of the two daily quests, which are laughably easy to complete, and which give the prizes of useless coins, very few crystals, and battle pass points that can't be used any more. At this point, there is nothing more to be done until the new ladder starts, which again only offers excitement for a few days until the reachable rewards have been collected, and after that you can wait again for several weeks for the new battle pass. Even if ladder and pass arrive, you still know that they will not offer enough rewards to build the deck you want, meaning that you are left to grind the same deck over and over again for literal months until you eventually stop playing the game.

Is this the situation that is wanted by the developers? A situation the deprives people from the actual fun part of the tcg, which is building exciting new decks? A situation in which there is nothing to do for weeks? A situation that eventually will lead players to leave the game for good?

Now that I ranted a lot about the broken game design, lets discuss some improvements that would be quick to implement, and would instantly fix all of the problems:

  1. Improve the ladder: I described how it is mathematically unlikely that many players will advance past the region of about 700 points. This could be resolved by introducing more "free" points into the system. One possiblity would be to track the highest rank of a player in the current ladder, and to never let them fall below 60 points less than this rank. This would introduce free points as soon as a player loses three times in a row, and most importantly it would introduce them across all ranks. This would still make it hard to progress as soons a you reach a high level, as you will face more and more challenging opponents, so the basic system stays intact, but it would generally allow more players to advance.
  2. Get rid of coins as rewards: Coins are useless! You can give them as reward, but never as the only reward! Include them in the battle pass amongst other rewards, but do not make them the only thing you get for completing a daily quest or for leveling up!
  3. Introduce actually useful level up rewards: Leveling up becomes harder and harder as more and more experience points are required. Before colleting a few level up rewards I assumed that they would be the most valuable rewards the game would give you, as leveling up is (in most games) seen as an important step. But here, the only reward is often only 50 coins! What kind of reward is that? And even if it is 200 crystals or credits every now and then, this is not enough for an event that only happens very rarely.
  4. Inroduce more regular rewards: By this I mean rewards that do not run out (unlike the battle pass as soon as you completed it). In my opinion, playing more should lead to more rewards! If you want to grind to build a new deck, you should be able to do so, which is currently not the case! One possibility would be to re-introduce the rewards after every won game that existed in the tcgo. A few years ago, after every win, you would get a "present" that contained a few coins (but actually useful coins that allowed to purchase tradable packs), or even a pack. Later, this was reduced to a spin wheel which gave far less rewards, but at least it was better than nothing. I think random rewards in the range of 10 to 50 credits are suitable, and sometimes a random pack. This would still mean that you nedd to win (not only play!) 13 games to even purchase a single rare card, so it would definitely not be too high and would make winning more fun (and it would reward playing casual games).
  5. Revamp the daily reward system: The tcgo had a daily reward ladder that offered rewards for up to 10 wins, which makes it much more fun to play actively. There should be rewards that yield some crystals, some credits (in my opinion at least 300 per day), and, if it really needs to be, even some coins.
  6. Create an infinite battle pass: It is nice to have a "final" tier that gives you a lot of rewards. But after that the battle pass is simply useless! Just introduce an infinitely progressing system that, after the final tier, just gives the same one pack (at the regular pass) and a few credits (for the premium pass) forever. This way, the pass will stay useful the whole time.
  7. Improve the crafting system: In general, the crafting system is nice. But it is crazy that you only get about one fourth of the value of a card! You should get the whole value of the card (as you would have if real trading was available), or at least you should get half the value. Additionally, there should be the option to activate an "I don't care about the rarity of the card" option. Right now, I have so many cards more than four times, but some of them are reverse, some of them are regular, some full arts, some secret rares. What am I supposed to do with all of them? You correctly recognized that one does not need more than four copies, but now you are stuck with way more anyways. All of this would have an easy fix: Just allow players to craft cards that they don't want, and not only those which they have four of. This would make packs an actually valuable reward, would fix the issue of many copies with different rarities, and would, for example, allow me to trade a full art supporter for a lot of credits, as I only play the regular cards anyways. This would also help the matter discussed above: Paying players could differentiate themselves by always having max rarity cards, which they can easily afford, while non-paying players would stick to the "cheapest" option. This is actually how the tcgo worked, with the difference that higher value cards like secret rares and full arts would have been traded with others instead of crafting them.

All these changes combined will still make it an endevour of around two weeks of extensive play to buld a new deck, which is more than enough to incentivise players to buy codes. The only difference is, that it is actually possible to play the game without buying codes, so that it will prevent players from leaving the game in masses.

Finally, a fix that I am not sure about how to implement it, so I don't include it in the "easy" fixes above: It should cost way less to build a rogue deck compared to a top deck, but right now the "less playable" pokemon V and Ex as well as the regular rares would still require months of rewards to build one deck. If this is the case, who will ever build them? The variety of the decks that are played takes a massive hit by the fact that building less popular decks costs so much. Why would I spend my two months worth of credits for a deck that is not one of the best? This makes the game way less fun as you run into the same decks over and over again, and it makes it less fun for everyone, paying players as well as non-paying ones.

I recently started playing the tcg live after having paused for about three years. I really looked forward to building all the new decks, and I even bought some codes to even be able to afford building them. I enjoy plaing, but the last thing I will do is buy more codes every two weeks to be able to build new decks. The only reason why I (in contrast to most new players) bought any codes in the first place is that I already had a strong attachment to the game from playing the tcgo for several years. I doubt that a significant number of new players will see the unrewarding game design of the tcg live and will also purchase codes. They will simply leave the game, and so will I if it stays this way. This would be unfortunate, as the tcg in general is a great game, and I sincerely hope that it will not happen.

Comments

  • uncomonfossil
    uncomonfossil Member Posts: 185 ✭✭✭
    100 Comments 25 Likes 25 Agrees 5 Answers

    You present a lot of strong arguments, but I have to disagree and say that the economy in Live is accessible to budget/F2P players. And I definitely believe the economy it is better than PTCGO. Yes, a new player is at a disadvantage in a collectable card game, but Live gives players a decent set of cards in the starter decks & easy access to at least 1 new top deck in the Battle Pass. This seems better than PTCGO, where it took me several months of playing before I could obtain my first top 10 deck.

    Coins - While it would be nice to be able to get cards with this, I think this is fine. I would never spend currency on cosmetics that I could use to buy cards. So I am willing to get some cosmetics. (And I generally just ignore the Coins.)

    Crystals - You are right that buying packs to get the cards that you want does not work well. But Crystals can be used in a much more efficient manner. First, you can buy a League Battle Deck if you are interesting in the cards, since this provides a good value. Second, most people should buy the Shadow Rider League Battle Deck to turn their Crystals into Credits. (If you already own a lot of Celebrations cards, then buying these packs is better.)

    Credits - This is pretty straight forward. As a budget player, I am careful about crafting Vstar & Vmax decks because they are extremely expensive. Fortunately, ex are much more affordable.

    Battle Pass - This is the heart of the economy for me as a budget player. 600 Crystals to purchase the Premium Battle Pass seems very reasonable. While it would be nice to craft cards from the newest set as soon as they are available, I get a lot of value by waiting to craft cards from the newest set until I have completed the Battle Pass. (Having to wait a little bit is the price I pay for being a budget player.) I do agree that the rewards should be increased once a player has completed the Battle Pass. Getting 60 Crystals a day for completing the Daily Challenges does not feel good once I have completed the Battle Pass.

    Ranked Ladder - I don't see this as a big part of the economy. I make sure that I get to the 600 level, since this is pretty simple, but otherwise I don't really care.

    Dusting System - While it varies by rarity, the ratio is about 1:4 in terms of dusting to crafting. This seems OK, but I don't really know what other games do for comparison. I do think that the dusting system is generally better than trading in PTCGO. While it would certainly be nice to dust copies of alternate arts of cards, I don't see this as changing. (We gotta catch 'm all, and the different arts are considered different cards.)

  • nickkimduh
    nickkimduh Member Posts: 3
    First Comment

    this game is completely in shambles, ruined everything. thankfully i will not be spending my money on pokemon cards, but i did enjoy it while it lasted. Terrible job ptcglive. what were you thinking.

  • DragMu89
    DragMu89 Member Posts: 4
    Name Dropper First Comment

    I agree with many points you are making. For example, I am also fine with coins being a currency that only buys avatar items, I just don't think its acceptable to give just coins without anything else as reward for a challenge, a level up or a battle pass tier, as they are for many players completely useless. If rewards are so scarce anyway, getting useless stuff as reward seems a bit insulting.

    I also totally agree with your statement that it is easier to get started since you have more good cards initially. This is way better than at the PTCGO, but unfortunately it is no remedy against the tristness that comes directly after the strong start. You can quickly build two good decks (lost box/lost tina and chien pao, the others are not really playable or miss too many expensive cards), and that is basically it for a very long time, which comes back to the issues discussed earlier. It is great to have two fairly good decks right at the start, but I don't want to play the same two decks over and over for months.

    For the crystals, I usually save for the Arceus Vstar bundle, as it gives me two valuable cards I might need in the future, it gives a lot of duplicate cards for credits, and a few packs of paldea evolved, which I have the most of anyways which maximizes the likelihood for more credits. But saving for this takes 25 days of collecting daily rewards! After 25 days of saving one should be able to build at least a complete (good) deck, but this still takes you only a small part of the way there.

    Regarding the battle pass, the 600 crystals are a good price considering that they are available by completing the daily challenges. But as you mentioned correctly, the pass is the main reward system for free-to-play players, which makes it even worse if the pass can be completed in less than half of its duration, leaving you with nothing to collect for sometimes more than a month. A simple infinite battle pass as I suggested would go a long way here.

    Your assessment of the ranked ladder and the crafting system are valid, but simply differ from my stance on them. In terms of credits the ladder actually provides the most rewards, which makes it kind of important. This makes it even worse if there is nothing to do as well after two days of playing. And my perception of the crafting system is mainly based on the TCGO: If I wasn't forced to open all these packs and could trade them as you could back in the day, you would get way more actually useful cards than you get when opening all of them (resulting mainly in unplayable cards), and when you finally are allowed to trade them for credits you need to open so many packs to even afford a single rare card, as you only get one fourth of the value. That does not feel right for me, especially if you see it in the light of trading cards, which was available at the tcgo and was always a part of real life collecting as well: If you trade, you get the same value in return, that is the rule! But now, you get way less. If you want to see it this way, each pack you get is basically only one fourth of a pack, which makes the reasonable number of packs you receive at the battle pass suddenly appear as not that much after all.

    In general, I do not think that the economy in Live is nearly as good as the one in online. Yes, you start out with more/better cards, but you pay for that with a lack of several core aspects of online:

    1. A few years ago, the presents you would get after each battle took you a long way as they gave you coins and packs, which you could trade directly for the cards that you actually needed. As I admitted above, this was dialed down significantly in the last years of the tcgo as well, which was not a positive change as well.
    2. You were also able to get tournament tickets. It was possible to collect enough tickets to participate in a tournament within one or two days, and winning would reward you with 5 packs. These packs alone would have payed for my complete regi deck, which now eats up the rewards of months. So how is the current system better?
    3. If you did not like a deck (or if you simply played it enough), you could trade the cards for packs again and use them to build a new deck. This prevents the game from being boring after a short while.
    4. Especially rouge decks were incedibly cheap to build. If a card was not popular, you could get multiple rare or even ex cards for a single pack, meaning that less popular decks were incredibly easy to build. These decks are often very fun to play, and having access to many of them makes the game much more diverse in terms of games you can play. This is currently not possible, though, as rogue decks are exactly as expensive as the best decks. So how will actually build them? This drastically decreases the variety of decks being played (and since lost box and chien pao are basically free you run into them most of the times anyway).
    5. If you had a lucky pull of a hype rare or full art card and you did not need it, you could trade it for a lot of packs. This even drastically increases the fun I have when pulling cards. I recently pulled a full art Iono, and I know I will never play it and therefore never need it, and someone else would be happy to have it and would be willing to pay enough to help me in turn with building my deck. So the current situation is worse for everyone. If I could at least chose to trade it in for credits that would be something (even though you would probably only get 250 credits or something for it), but this is only possible if I have four copies. And how likely is it that I will pull four of them?


  • uncomonfossil
    uncomonfossil Member Posts: 185 ✭✭✭
    100 Comments 25 Likes 25 Agrees 5 Answers

    I appreciate the back & forth. It's to be able to disagree on some points but still listen to one another.

    We do agree on a number of points. The fact that you get so little rewards for the Daily Challenges after you have finished the Battle Pass is a real problem. Some people suggest adding more Tiers, which would increase the rewards. I don't like this suggestion, since it can force people to grind who have less time to play on a regular basis. Your suggestion of an Infinite Battle Pass is good. Keep the Battle Pass basically like it is. But add a level 50+, which gives an appropriate level of rewards.

    PTCGO had a more robust economy with a number of different ways to make progress. This did make things more interesting from my point of view, because I enjoy resource gathering and mastering an economy. The Events which you had to spend Tickets to enter was enjoyable, and then you would get tradeable packs from this. And if I had time grind on the first few days when the Event rewards were the newest packs, it was a great . (If I was too busy to play during this time it was a major blow though.) But it did take a bit of time to really master the in-game economy. And I assume that most players want a simple economy.

    The trading economy did have advantages. I did appreciate the ability to build rogue decks for cheap as well. I remember picking up a couple of Noivern V after it did well at an event paired with Weezing. I probably got 2 Noivern for 1 pack. I don't think I had Suicune V at the time because it was too expensive for me. (I think it was between 20-30 packs.) But in Live I might never get a card like Noivern V until I had all of the better cards first. And I enjoyed playing Sandaconda Vmax, in part because it was so inexpensive. But I would probably have never picked it up if it cost the same as Rapid Strike Urshifu Vmax. And being able to pick up a full play set of a random stage 1 for a pack was great. So, I agree that there is something lost here.

    But I think that ending the trade system was the right thing to do. New players were always susceptible to trading a 'useless' Computer Search for a random current Standard card. And the server was way too slow when it came to loading the current trade offers. (And if you tried to make a trade that had already been completed, it crashed and you had to start all over again.)

    For me, the majority of my cards were Trade Locked in PTCGO. So I could stare at my 8 copies of a particular art, but that was it. So having excess copies dusted is a plus. I agree that it would be great to dust copies of cards that I don't want. I almost always play the cheapest art for each card, so getting value for those fancy arts would be great. I just don't see Pokemon as ever doing this. (But we can always hope and ask.)

    For certain questions, I don't think there are clear answers. How accessible should a collectable card game be to F2P? I think Live is reasonable in this respect, but not everyone will agree. How quickly should a new player have access to a large variety of top decks? A collectable card game should give some benefit to players that have been playing for longer. Collections grow over time. But you do need to balance this with being accessible to new players.

    In terms of your purchasing the Trainers Toolkit, I don't think that this is giving you the best value, even if you still need Arceus. If you have a full playset of the cards in the Shadow Rider deck, you get 4150 Credits for the 1250 Crystals it costs. If you already have all of the Trainer cards in the Toolkit, then you should be better off crafting Arceus & using your Crystals to buy Shadow Rider Decks. (Or buy Celebrations Packs if you already own a large number of Celebrations card.)