Some Thoughts on BDSP
So a lot of the complaints I have on BDSP (and some complaints I've seen others have) boil down to "the games are flawed because the source material is flawed. Platinum did it better."
The thing is, though, Pokemon has only minimally integrated third version features when developing remakes. Take ORAS for example- the source material is primarily the original Ruby and Sapphire, and many changes that Emerald made are not featured in the remakes.
I'm not saying that not including Platinum content is the sole reason BDSP is bad, but I have to wonder if we're being a bit hard on BDSP for not including Platinum content, given the precedent that previous remakes have set. Unless Diamond and Pearl are a special case in this regard?
Comments
-
Heart Gold and Soul Silver included Crystal's content. And included a whole range of new features on top of that. And it was done on the Nintendo DS.
Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire failing to live up to that standard does not mean we have to accept low standards forever now, because that's the "precedent".
Why keep excusing poor practices? Shouldn't better technology and more resources mean we get more, not less?
It does not make you a "bad fan" or whatever nonsense insult someone might throw at you for critiquing a product. Criticism is not childish, it is not harassment, nor is it any other buzzword frequently used to dismiss it.
Criticism is how things improve. Mindlessly consuming every lazy half-effort and convincing yourself it was actually acceptable is how you guarantee low standards will continue, if not sink even lower, now that they know they can get away with it and have people defend them for it.
2 -
Bdsp are fundamentally flawed because they completely fail (do not so much as attempt) at fulfilling the long established purpose of pokemon remakes: recreating the region in the current generation's engine, complete with all the latest QoL changes, new pokemon, and multiplayer connectivity.
FRLG, HGSS, ORAS. All these games did just that. BDSP does none. It's just a rerelease with a new coat of paint, and it's missing content from the originals to boot.
2 -
The one good thing I'll say about BDSP is that it's the only way to get shiny Arceus.
@RiqMoran That the only good thing you can say about BDSP is that it locks one specific form of a legendary (or does it still count as mythical?) behind its purchase is not a point in its favour.
0 -
This is going to be too long and I doubt someone will read and approve all this, but:
I don't think that's the only reason. Diamond and Pearl, despite being loved, are some of the blandest Pokémon games, and are very slow and tiring. Platinum did its best to make it more interesting, with the distortion world and new characters, along with balancing some of the gameplay issues.
BDSP were rushed and added nothing, unless you count Ramanas Park and following Pokémon that somehow make the SwSh DLC version feel like the LGPE version. And Poffins don't require you to be Arceus or have friends to make them I guess (but also no secret base homes).
Even in terms of graphics, they had to add a bunch of effects and blurs to make it look decent, and the scaling does not work in 3D. I mean even HGSS made big Legendaries bigger than the average Pokémon!
Do you know what FRLG, ORAS, and HGSS did?
They remade the games for a newer generation and added a bunch of amazing features to make up for the lack of new stories, and even remade the character designs to fit the game better! And I'm pretty sure that some DP characters needed redesigns. Also no Looker, making this the first generation to not have him since he first appeared. He was in generations 4-7 but not in a remake of his home region? So to my next point: 0 Platinum Content. They kept the awful regional dex, the distortion world appeared only as much as in DP: five seconds while you get a Griseous Orb, no Platinum details, none of the gameplay improvements like the gym order, and probably more.
And don't say ORAS was the same, the ENTIRE postgame was Emerald but ORAS version, with Zinnia and alternate dimension theories. HGSS put Eusine and (overworld encounter) Suicune into the game, and they were from Crystal. FRLG... well.. Did Yellow even add anything? I mean, the English versions of Red and Blue are based on the fourth (or was it third) version in Japan, so I don't think they could've added much but we got the Sevii islands and a ton of cool and random key items.
In conclusion: BDSP can be counted as a spinoff or fangame, and therefore none of what they did is real except the first few fun, clone-filled, glitchy days. I usually have respect for programmers and those who work on video games, but there's a limit. That was just DP: 3D (Switch Edition), not an actual new game.
Game Freak, I understand this makes more money but please take your time and don't make 4 games every three years. Please. BDSP didn't even make money, you could've just counted PLA as the remake and we would've been happy.
It all feels like they did it to show people who wanted a "faithful remake" what a faithful remake actually is, and shut up the "next remake when?!" people with the threat of Unova having a trash remake if they keep screaming for another rushed game. (Please don't make the region with one of the darkest plots chibi, PLEASE make it as mature as its story, PLEASE, POKÉMON)
1 -
@UnovanZorua BDSP actually did sell pretty well, from what I've heard.
As for the addition of Crystal content in HGSS- I had never played those games and only had ORAS to compare to. Thanks for letting me know. Guess the "precedent" isn't what I thought.
As for your point that ORAS DID include Emerald content, I never tried to insinuate that it didn't, but when you take into account what Emerald and Platinum changed (the storyline in addition to giving Gym Leaders different teams), it would have involved a lot more changing of the base game to accommodate the third version content, and the remakes just did not do that.
HOWEVER
As @TheJeffers said, just because they DIDN'T do that doesn't mean they shouldn't have. And Diamond and Pearl had such notorious flaws (such as so-called type specialists not having teams solely of their type due to the bad Pokedex) that should have been fixed but weren't. When I fought Candice and she brought out her Medicham, I remember thinking "Seriously? They didn't fix that?"
Sorry if my thoughts are kind of all over the place.
1 -
I guess I could add that if you look at it as a simple rerelease rather than a remake it's alright. It's worse than Platinum, but about as good as Diamond and Pearl. And basic rereleases serve an important role in game preservation. It's way easier to play Sinnoh games now than Unova games, thanks to BDSP.
0 -
@D-ManBlue Oh, I wasn't specifically talking about someone when I mentioned the ORAS and Emerald thing, I just have a very unique typing style. It was just for whoever was reading and thought that, I don't usually direct these things at one person.
And yeah, the dex was definitely a really bad part of the game. And sometimes the Pokémon used made no sense (Flint had a Lopunny iirc because they have similar hair. What?). and the E4 being randomly 10x more overpowered than the rest of the remake was also an issue (the entire league was EV+IV trained with competitive items).
A lot of the additions felt pretty random or bland too (and I will never forgive them for removing Secret Bases. We used to have home-like rooms, and now all we have are statues).
We also did not get any random easter eggs or strange features/key items. In a Pokémon remake? That was weird.
2 -
This is going to be too long and I doubt someone will read and approve all this
@UnovanZorua No, long post best post. Join the verbose. Actually elaborate and expand upon your thoughts, rather than just vapidly posting your opinion with no explanation or justification.
I don't think that's the only reason. Diamond and Pearl, despite being loved, are some of the blandest Pokémon games, and are very slow and tiring. Platinum did its best to make it more interesting, with the distortion world and new characters, along with balancing some of the gameplay issues.
As I have realised from all the "what was your first game" threads, not everyone started with Red and Blue back in the 90s. In fact it seems that most people posting here didn't.
Many of them either started with Diamond and Pearl or played it early in their childhoods. It was part of their foundation in the series and informs their perspective on games going forward.
People are always going to have nostalgia for those experiences. Which is fine, you are allowed to like things, however flawed, so long as you are prepared to examine them more critically too and recognise their faults, in spite of your fondness for them.
For my part, I came to DP after disliking RSE. I enjoyed DP but its problems were apparent to me even on my first playthrough. I was playing as a teenager though, after that "I'm too old for Pokémon" stage my peers and I experienced in our early teens, so while not an adult perspective at the time, I perused it with a more mature eye than some of the fans today did back then.
Platinum did a lot to address some of the issues and added much to a lacking narrative, but many of the issues remained and are perhaps inherent to the engine. (Those crawling health bars...) I like Platinum and hold it up as one of the better entries; a part of Pokémon's golden era on the DS, though obviously HGSS and gen 5 are much more robust.
So to return to the core point, part of BDSP's success, other than the Pokémon brand, is the nostalgia many still hold for the games. DP was great in their memory, Platinum was even better, so a modern version must be betterer.
We must not let Gamefreak, or any developer, bank on our nostalgia, as was clearly the entire business model with BDSP. I think the amazing game the DPP fans see is there under all the issues. BDSP simply were not the games prepared to do the work to make them truly shine. A shame and a missed opportunity. How long will it be before they take another stab at it? A decade or two?
1 -
@TheJeffers The official website used "nostalgic" so much that I genuinely became concerned that they thought it would be the ONLY reason people would buy the games. Moreover, they claimed that if you never stepped foot in Sinnoh or grew up with Diamond and Pearl, you would get something out this game. Meanwhile I was thinking- "What about people like me who played the games and didn't get much out of them?"
It's kind of shocking that they would forget what should be a large portion of the fanbase- those who played Diamond and Pearl out of love for the franchise, but don't have any particularly good memories of those games, and it didn't really mean much for them on a personal level.
2
