What Pokémon game do you recommend to someone who's never played one?
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I don't think it's inherently a problem that your starter is resisted by the first gym's Pokémon, or are even immune to your starter. If anything, it teaches the importance of type match-ups and team diversity at essentially the first boss. Forcing the whole game with your starter is a bad habbit, and only sometimes the optimal speedrun strat (shout out to Nidoran♂️). People who picked Charmander in the original games had a similar struggle.
It would be nice if you had something other than normal and bug type Pokémon before Brock, or if they put a sprinkler system in the gym since it is supposed to depict the anime, but if I recall I just trained up a Butterfree.
I would recommend RB over Yellow simply because it better reflects the gen 1 and Pokémon experience in general. Picking a starter is one of the early highlights of the games, and Yellow denies you that, even if it does give you all three later.
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Agreed on the type match-up but if you're a brand new player who has no idea on what the type chart is and what not, then it might be a shock to send Pikachu out there only for it to be curb-stomped.
Nidoran isn't a viable option on RB early on because it doesn't learn Double Kick to deal with Brock's Rock Types(everyone else it faces it does rather well though). On Yellow, it learns Double Kick at level 12(Ditto Female Nidoran), alongside Mankey at level 9 with Low Kick(which it only gets on Yellow). Butterfree is the same on RB as it is on Yellow so anyone who goes to the trouble of training one benefits. FRLG though, Butterfree gets crushed by Rock Tomb but they give Charmander Metal Claw to at least give it a fighting chance.
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Perhaps things have changed in the RB speedrunning scene since the last time I watched a run, but catching a Nidoran♂️ and soloing everything with him was the world record holding strat. That's what I was referencing.
It was Squirtle at one time, and now I think about it you might use Squirtle for Brock in the run, but catching and evolving a Nidoking proved more effective.
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Okay so I'm gonna give brief thoughts on all of them.
Obviously S/V, PLA, and PLZA, Colloseum, XD, Let's Go P/E and Pokopia are out since they're super different from the majority of the series, and would be jarring as a first experience.
I think the next thing I'd do is eliminate G/S/C, R/S, D/P, and BD/SP since they're all not the objectively definitive version of each of these games.
Next I get into the best choice for each region that still has multiple games
I think FR/LG is very much a Persona 3 reload case, where the remake improves on the original in almost every regard.
A lot of OR/AS's changes feel very intrusive to the original game, and tbh the pixel art is way better.
S/M and US/UM are very split for me but I do think US/UM edges it out for having more things (even if the story is worse).
B2/W2 is better than B/W but it's a sequel, at least play the original first.
That leaves us with 8 games, so I'm actually close to answering the question.
8. US/UM has very different gameplay so it wouldn't really make sense to start with it.
7. SW/SH is way too easy, I have to at least make them feel engaged.
6. HG/SS aside from S/V this is my least favourite Pokemon game by far, for the sole reason of level scalling. The trainers almost always have teams half the level of my own, and there's quite a lot of trainers here. It's such a slog, and then you still have to grind to actually play the game. Plus I'd honestly rather there not be a postgame. It's a glorified boss rush, with a way too overleveled final boss. The game just sucks.
5. X/Y game has a few big flaws, but the customization brings it up a lot. Unless you choose the male option since we get practically nothing, it does feel like a nice transition point that makes both old and new entries imediately feel accessible. .
4. FR/LG Kanto is very boring in comparison to most of the series. It's good but boring.
3. B/W one of the greatest pokemon games by far. But story should not be expected from this series, so I don't want to put it as high.
2. Emerald, great pokemon game, it feels like Pokemon in every way, but is somewhat dated in a few small areas.
1. Platinum, awesome Pokemon experience, everything about it is great. It perfectly sets the bar for what a Pokemon game should be.
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I think the best part of first playing pokemon is the slow of understanding and knowledge. You'll slowly learn the type chart by heart, and how to use more complex skills and strats.
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I think FR/LG is very much a Persona 3 reload case, where the remake improves on the original in almost every regard.
Bold of you to try and start two very divisive arguments about two different series in one statement.
Reload was such a missed opportunity. It could have been the definitive version. But Atlus is simply not the company that made Persona 3 any more. Like many, they were destroyed by their own mainstream success.
Anyway... am I to infer your final answer was Platinum? I know it often gets lumped in with gen 5 and HGSS in representing the best era of the Pokémon series, and it was a big improvement over DP, but I am in the camp that thinks Platinum is overrated. Not bad. But I still think it retains many of the problems of DP, some of which seem inherent to the engine such as the agonisingly slow gameplay.
That said, I don't think it is a bad entry point. It is still very representative of a traditional Pokémon game and it was maybe one of the more challenging games in the series. It's just not the one I'd pick as a first game, but it is on the list of "games to try next".
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I thought Persona 3 Reload was universally agreed to be better (aside from FEMC who wasn't in the original)?
No offense but you seem to generally take the old is good new is bad arguments, is there a long standing franchise you think is better today than before?
You keep on saying that everyone else's picks aren't what you'd recommend, so then what would you recommend?
I'm not trying to be rude or anything, just genuinely asking?
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My goal isn't to be antagonistic or dismiss anyone else's choices. Rather, I want to further discussion and offer an opposition to their viewpoint. I don't want to be the final word or "always right" about things. I offer criticism, and I want to hear their response.
Disagreeing is not an insult, a personal attack, or a dismissal of an opinion.
I think it is a total misconception to say that I have the "old good, new bad" mindset. While I think the inverse attitude is a big problem in the gaming industry, and a lot of new games in many series are tired and derivative, which is part of the reason many of the most popular games are remakes of games from twenty years ago, it is definitely not a universal rule.
I mentioned Baldur's Gate 3 in the other thread. I love CRPGs and the Baldur's Gate series, and while I have a lot of criticism of 3 and things I prefer in the older games, I would definitely say it is the best in the series.
The Digimon series has been doing very well recently, and besides a couple of games like the original Digimon World, I would say the video games side of the franchise has really found its footing and a strong identity in recent years, where before it was often meandering and variable to low quality.
Doom is a series I would say I really enjoy both the classic and the modern games. A lot of love went into the new games. They do their own thing, but you can feel the respect for the original.
When it comes to the Persona, and SMT series in general, like many fans, I have strong opinions about it. Persona 3 FES was my introduction to the series, so I am very particular about it. I (and many fans) have been frustrated by the FES vs Portable discussion when it comes to the game, and the hope was that Reload would be the definitive, complete version. It was not. In addition, the Atlus that made Persona 3 (and the SMT games of the PS2 era and before) is not the Atlus of today. The success of Persona 4, then further success of Persona 5 really changed the company and the way they make games. And of course, it's literally not the same staff anymore.
As for what game I would recommend to a new Pokémon player, as I mentioned earlier, it's Black and White. Also my favourite games in the series.
I think they represent the peak of the series in general, and the 2D era. It was something of a soft reboot, which makes it an ideal entry point. They represent the first games not based on a region of Japan so are somewhat separate from the other games; they have their own exclusive Pokédex, which removes any need for foreknowledge of previous Pokémon or their evolution lines and history. They have the best story in the Pokémon series. Not a high bar, but there we are. And they are the best the 2D sprites ever looked, before Gamefreak dropped them for static, flat-coloured 3D models.
They are still handheld titles. They are still 2D titles. They capture the essence of classic Pokémon whilst bringing forward over a decade of refinement and innovation. Though the criticisms of Pokémon becoming too easy and condescending began to creep in with this generation (the region is an oval! Don't get lost!) it came before my mortal enemy the exp. share and the endess tutorials of SM.
In short, they represent the most refined classic handheld Pokémon experience while serving as stand alone titles for new players to familiarise themselves with a pre-established world. And they even have direct sequels if they find themselves wanting more, and those sequels even reintroduce older Pokémon and characters so they are prepared for earlier installments and references.
Naturally, the games are not perfect. I could talk about their flaws at just as much length. I even hinted at a couple here. And I am sure you could tell me some reasons why they might not be a good entry point for a new player. I won't be offended if someone furthers that discussion. Indeed, that's why I started the thread.
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Okay, I think I understand the arguments you're making more now. I myself do agree with the Persona 3 thing even though I haven't played that one yet, just on the virtue of being in the community.
I don't think B/W is the best entry point solely because it is the best game. I feel like playing any other Pokemon game (except for a select few) after this point would be too much of a drop in quality.
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I am just here thinking that FES is the best version of Persona 3.
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